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Episode #644 - Decluttering For Retirement: Why It's So Hard and How to Push Through

ROGER PREVIEWS THE EPISODE, SHARES DETAILS ABOUT THE UPCOMING NOODLE LIVE EVENT, AND OUTLINES THE NEXT PHASE OF THE DECLUTTERING SERIES.

Roger: The only time you're actually growing is when you are uncomfortable. Hey there, welcome to the show dedicated to helping you not just survive retirement, but to have the confidence to lean in and rock it. Rock retirement, create a great life, that's what it's all about. My name is Roger Whitney. I am a practicing retirement planner with over 30 years experience, co-founder of Retire Agile. Check out our new website, retireagile.com, just up. I'd love to hear your feedback.

Roger: Today on the show, we are going to do a lot of things. We're going to talk about the challenges of decluttering. We need to acknowledge what we're going to face so we can strategize about how to overcome that. And then also we're going to answer a number of your questions related to MediShare programs, the state of uncertainty in the world and what I do about that, longevity feedback. And then at the end of the show, we're going to have a special Rockin' Retirement in the Wild update. We have a friend of the show, long-time listener that has been kind enough to share some of the transformations that she is making in her life and gives us credit for being a small part of that, which I'm honored that we all can do that. So that's what is on deck for today.

Roger: Last thing before we get to the challenges, go to LiveWithRoger.com. We're going to have a live hangout, a Noodle Live we'll call it, on June 16th. So you can go to LiveWithRoger.com and learn more details. It's going to be a hangout where we're going to have some retirement talk and answer a lot of questions, as well as having Rock Retirement Club open house because it is open enrollment in June to bring in our next cohort to help empower them to create a retirement plan of record and create a plan that gives them confidence and comfort so they can lean into their retirement. We'd love to have you check out the club as well as hang out and ask some of your questions.

ROGER INTRODUCES ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES OF DECLUTTERING: MAKING THE PROCESS FEEL TOO OVERWHELMING AND BELIEVING IT HAS TO BE DONE PERFECTLY.

Roger: So the decluttering exercise, as we've been building it out, we've talked about what we mean by clutter. Last week we talked about the opportunities. Now we're going to face the challenges. And then in next week's show, we're going to put together an action plan with an expert and have some conversation around how to approach this topic. But there are a lot of challenges that we have to face here.

Roger: I think probably the biggest challenge is thinking in absolutes, making this too big of a project. And honestly, as I debrief how we've approached this topic, it's easy when I'm talking about it to point out all the opportunities. And when we're talking about clutter, we can think of this entire project as way too big, and we either have to be perfect at it or not even go into this danger of addressing it at all.

Roger: I think that's a real challenge. It doesn't do you service, doesn't do me service, but it tends to be the way we talk about these topics. So we're really trying to peel back the onion on a lot of the layers around decluttering and why it's so great and everything else. But the challenge is it can make it too big, that if I can't do it perfectly, I'm not going to do it at all. Because it's just, I either have to go all in or not. No, no, no, no. Progress over perfection. We need to decrease the stakes on this. And I think that's one of the biggest challenges. I'm that way, honestly, I'm all in and going, and then it's easy to get overwhelmed because I want to be perfect at it. I don't want to just do it a bit. I want to be perfect at it, and that's a challenge.

Roger: And then we obviously have a lot of just life going on. Our cars are moving, we're living our life, and we're busy and we get tired. When we're home, we'd rather do something else. Anything else. I'll get to it syndrome gets in the way. We're overwhelmed. We just don't want to have to make a decision. Maybe it's just decision fatigue. I had to deal with it another day. And then another day. And then another challenge on a macro level is that it's just never urgent. There's no trigger. Unless you're moving or you have something that brings it front and center, I call it coming out of the matrix.

ROGER EXPLAINS WHY CLUTTER OFTEN PERSISTS BECAUSE IT LACKS URGENCY AND PEOPLE WAIT FOR A TRIGGERING EVENT BEFORE TAKING ACTION.

Roger: Estate planning is definitely this way. We know it's important. We know we'll be better off for it in terms of planning, but it's never urgent. And who wants to read those documents? I'm about to sign our new documents with Shawna and it took me forever to go read them and then send my comments back. I avoided it because I was tired. I was overwhelmed. I'd rather do something else. It's never urgent. But then every now and then we get those triggers. A friend passes away unexpectedly, and we're like, my goodness, we come out of the matrix and I need to take care of this. And we're motivated. And that can be a great trigger to get us moving. But absent those triggers, it's easy just to ignore it.

Roger: Health is this way as well. I've seen this personally and in my mom. I can recall when she was on her cancer battle. We tend not to take care of our health when we're not motivated by some trigger. And it's very common when someone has a diagnosis, or someone has someone close to them that has a diagnosis, then they really go down this rabbit hole of eating better, exercising, et cetera. It's a focusing principle. Well, our clutter, like health, is not urgent until it is. And the trick is, just like rocking retirement, to have some sense of urgency without overdoing it, to take intentional action rather than having to take massive action because some trigger happened. This is a challenge that we have when it comes to things like this. It's just natural.

Roger: And then clutter essentially represents deferred decisions. Don't need to throw that away. Don't need to close that account. The relationship's good enough. The organization's good enough. These are delayed decisions that are uncomfortable. But change happens when we are uncomfortable. And entering the danger, that stress we feel in addressing it, I think we need to alchemize and make it a counter-indicator telling us that yes, this is the right path at some level, without making it too big of a project. Please don't feel like you have to be perfect at this.

HE EXPLORES THE EMOTIONAL AND PRACTICAL OBSTACLES TIED TO PHYSICAL POSSESSIONS, INCLUDING MEMORIES, UNFINISHED PROJECTS, FAMILY HEIRLOOMS, AND SUNK COSTS.

Roger: All right. So let's address the challenges within the three domains of clutter that we've defined, things, finances, and relationships. With our things, the first challenge is emotional attachment. We have memories tied to objects. Let me look around my office here. I have a rock from Mount Whitney. By the way, you're not supposed to take one, so don't tell anybody. But I have a rock from Mount Whitney when I hiked that with a number of friends probably 15 years ago. Maybe I'm past the statute of limitations. That rock, my namesake, it has memories of that hiking trip where Russell and I did the 99 switchbacks or whatever, and Brett and John were flying down because they're just crazy people. The dinner we had at the end, all the memories of that rock. I never really look at it, but if I picked it up, all of those memories would come back. Like, how do I get rid of that? Because it symbolizes that experience.

Roger: Then there are memories and unfinished stories or projects. I'll use my wife, since she's not here. She has a lot of woodworking equipment because she went through a phase of refinishing furniture. We have a number of pieces in the house that she bought at a yard sale or a thrift shop and brought back to life. And we have all the tools and things related to that. That season is not something that she's in right now. It may not be again because of her inflammation and pain in her joints. She'd rather focus on hiking and golfing. But we still have all of that equipment and gear for that season of life, that might be an unfinished story or project for her.

Roger: Another challenge with things is family items, things that we inherited from our parents or from family members that we have sentimental value to or feel obligated to hold on to because of who they came from. That's a challenge to overcome. Then we have sunk cost. I'll use my suits as an example. I have all these suits I haven't worn for probably eight years. I might fit in them again, but I'm not in a season, nor do I want to be in a season, of wearing suits very often. But you know what? I paid a lot of money for those suits. They're really nice. There's a sunk cost there. Just getting rid of them, even if I donated them, seems wrong. That's sunk cost bias.

Roger: And then there's that 'I might use that' challenge. How many things do you have in your house that you haven't used literally in years, if not decades, that you think, 'Hey, I might need that plane saw'? Or for me, it's the riveter that has been hanging around for probably 30 years now. I haven't riveted anything in over 30 years, but I might need that. These are challenges that we have to overcome.

ROGER BREAKS DOWN FINANCIAL CLUTTER AND WHY ACCOUNTS, RELATIONSHIPS, TAXES, AND UNCERTAINTY CAN MAKE SIMPLIFICATION FEEL RISKY.

Roger: Now let's move to the money aspect of it. What are some challenges that you have to overcome in simplifying your financial life? Well, it feels risky to touch it. It's all working good enough. I may have to move accounts. That's intimidating. Do I have to sell everything if I move accounts? That's intimidating, just leave it alone. It's risky to touch. The tax consequences might be a big challenge that you have to manage over a long period of time. You can't just sell everything and deal with all the taxes. We had a question about that last week related to donor-advised funds as a tactic there, but there are tax consequences.

Roger: And bank accounts could be tied to relationships that you have. Maybe you opened an account with your best friend because he was a broker or an advisor. You have some investments there, but nothing's really happened with it. It would be an uncomfortable conversation to unwind that. You don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. And then there's the overwhelm, account movements you're not comfortable with, potential tax consequences, lots of unknown unknowns. If I move something, do I have to sell it? All of that stuff makes it feel risky and overwhelming.

HE DISCUSSES RELATIONSHIP CLUTTER, INCLUDING OBLIGATIONS, ORGANIZATIONS, UNHEALTHY DYNAMICS, AND THE FEAR OF DISAPPOINTING OTHERS.

Roger: Now let's go to relationships. When I say relationships, we automatically think person to person, and that is definitely an element. But another element of relationships are organizations that you serve in some capacity that you volunteer at. It also could be obligations you've given. Like, I'm going to Bali to speak at a conference, super excited about it. It's a long way away, but it's an obligation. You likely have a lot of obligations and promises that you made that were open-ended. I mean that as well. In a relationship, some of the challenges we can have are no clear exit.

Roger: We have guilt and obligation. I promised to do that. Even though I promised it 10 years ago, I feel like I'm still tied to that open-ended promise. I feel guilty for leaving it. The need is still there. Fear of being alone. If you start to separate from people that are toxic, or not healthy for you, but you feel like you might be alone, at least you know what it is, and someone's paying attention to you. I think of a long-term client who had a very toxic relationship that she never unwound. The person eventually passed, but she was more worried about being alone than about having someone healthy in her life.

Roger: Then there are relationships that are draining but not toxic. They're nice enough, not always my first choice, but it's not that bad. So yeah, I'll keep it around. I'll keep going there even though it's not my favorite thing to do. And when I say relationships, I mean people, organizations, and obligations. And obviously there are other people's feelings to consider, depending on how we do it, we have to navigate that interaction with a person or an organization or re-negotiating a promise we made. That's uncomfortable. We don't like to do that most of the time. So we tend to let these things clutter.

HOW DO WE OVERCOME THESE CHALLENGES?

Roger: These are really important challenges that we need to just identify. So the next question is: how do we overcome these challenges and get some low-risk reps in? How do we start easy to get comfortable with all of these decisions in a low-stakes way so we can go from being uncomfortable to feeling like we have our sea legs in terms of making decisions that are going to serve our present and future selves? How do we do that in a low-stakes way? That is going to be part of the strategy that the expert and I explore next week on the show. I just want to make sure we think about these challenges so we can come up with a strategy of how to approach them. But I think the biggest one is: don't make it bigger than it needs to be. You don't have to be perfect. It's just baby steps. All right. With that, let's get to some of your questions.

LISTENER QUESTIONS

ROGER ANSWERS A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER GLOBAL SENTIMENT TOWARD U.S. LEADERSHIP SHOULD IMPACT INTERNATIONAL VERSUS DOMESTIC INVESTMENT ALLOCATION DECISIONS.

Ken: Hey Roger, love the show. I have a question that will sound political, but it's not. It's about having a sound portfolio that takes into account external threats and concerns. I'm five to 10 years from retirement and on track. Reviewing my holdings recently, I noticed my equities are 75% US, 25% non-US. I don't rebalance often and US markets have performed well. What caught my attention is the Gallup survey released in April, which says that US leadership approval fell to 31% globally, down from 39%, with NATO countries approval dropping 14 points and US disapproval hitting a record 49%. My worry is that as relationships with other countries weaken, US economic opportunity could take a hit, which has me thinking about shifting from 75% US for my equities to 65% US equities. My question for you is: how much weight, if any, should an individual investor give to foreign sentiment like this when making US and international allocation decisions? Is a signal worth acting on, or is it mostly noise compared to the usual drivers?

Roger: Wonderful question. So, no faith in leadership by survey, which has lots of flaws, we're in a season of dropping faith in the US. Some of that, we won't actually get into why that's happening, because I think there's more to it. Change is hard, it makes people nervous. So we won't get into why, but let's just go to your question: how much should you take these kinds of surveys into your allocation between US equities and international equities? And it's mostly noise. I don't pay attention to any of that. I never have over 35 years. Just like I don't pay attention too much to AI and how it's going to disrupt everything. I didn't pay much attention to the Internet revolution of the 90s or peak oil. Name your theme over the last 30, 40 years. I don't pay much attention to them. It doesn't mean I'm not aware of them and I don't think about them, but I compartmentalize them when managing a retirement plan.

Roger: The reason is they're very transitory. They are like rapids in the water. If we think of the economy and equities, let's just stick with equities. Equities are ownership in companies that participate in the economy. And the economy as a whole, think of it like a river, and it is flowing. The river has a current, which is growth. Look all throughout history: growth at some level is the current of the river moving in a direction. And when you're investing in equities, you're trying to get positioned in the river to participate in long-term economic growth. Just like a river, which has eddies, it has rapids, it has debris, sometimes you get into things that just swirl around and put you into a washing machine for a while, then spit you out, and then you start growing again.

Roger: The world economy is very much the same way. And so the question you have to ask is: how do I position my equities? The reason we invest in equities is to participate in growth. It's going to give us dividends, which is basically the benefits of profits from growing, healthy companies. And it's also going to give us capital appreciation. We've seen the evolution of that in individual companies within the markets and indexes over the years, Nortel, Xerox, these companies turn over. Sometimes they go away. Sometimes they're international, sometimes they're US.

Roger: So I don't pay any attention to a lot of the rapids. I'm not trying to be a guide for where I need to zig and zag on this river of economic growth over time. I try to be very efficient, it doesn't cost a lot of money, it's tax efficient. And then if I'm on the river long enough, I may get wet from time to time, but overall, over the long term, I'll get to where I need to go, which is participating in equity growth. If you have a proper timeframe, and timeframe is critical, you're going to participate in that economic growth, even if now and then you get wet. And that's why you need to have the other elements of your pie cake or your buckets so you can weather those storms and not tip over the entire boat.

Roger: No, I wouldn't pay any attention to this stuff, as scary as it is, because this is a season. This is a rapid that will pass. And if you look at the markets, they don't match that sentiment at all. Sentiment is reactionary. Markets are generally forward-focused. Sentiment is a lagging indicator. Markets are more efficient. They're always thinking forward. So if you look at sentiment, you're really looking backwards in time at how we feel. It's like: I jumped into the pool and I swallowed too much water, so I'm never going to the pool again. I don't like pools. Whereas, well, you probably do if you go back.

Roger: Now, the question between US and international equities. Traditionally in portfolio construction, the argument for international equities is that they are less correlated to US equities, meaning they don't move exactly together, so it provides additional diversification. But I don't necessarily buy that, because although the correlation is not perfect, what generally happens is when they don't move together, it's usually when things are going well. When we're in the rapids and people are getting wet from an investment market standpoint, in a bear market, they tend to move together. Their correlation moves closer to one. So you don't get any of the benefits of diversification when you need it most, when we're under market stress.

Roger: I do think that a healthy international allocation is good, because really it's more about having access to more companies. You could argue the majority of US companies, including Nvidia, thank you, last week's call out, they're international companies already. We're in a more global world anyway. All the large companies do a significant amount of business internationally. And having international stocks like Mercedes, Siemens, and all sorts of companies that do a lot of business in the US, it's more about having access to more diversification from a company standpoint. So they're not all domiciled in the US and not all domiciled internationally.

Roger: So 65/35, 75/25, honestly, the math can argue both all day long using data. I don't think it's as important as the first-order decisions: your emergency fund, your income reserve, and a diversified long-term portfolio that does have some bonds. And then if you want to have your equities within those ranges, fine, regardless of whether we're in rapids, calm waters, an eddy, or whatever. I wouldn't pay any attention to sentiment surveys. You have a bigger time management issue, Ken. It's not going to move a lever in your life trying to predict the future or betting on somebody else to predict a future. Your time is better spent somewhere else.

A LISTENER FACING GRAY DIVORCE ASKS FOR GUIDANCE, LEADING ROGER TO DISCUSS GRIEF, REBUILDING IDENTITY, AND CREATING A NEW VISION FOR RETIREMENT.

Danny: Hey Roger. I've been listening to you for over five years and have gone back to listen to almost every episode. I was planning the final stretch with less than three years for us both to retire at the same time when my wife, four years younger, surprised me with reasons to divorce. So much for joining the RRC as I was planning. I liked the recent survey overview and noticed that I am now in a very unique category. Could you share your thoughts on gray divorce? Specifically the top three things that one must do, next could do, and should do. Thanks for your feedback.

Roger: Danny, thank you so much for sharing the question. And I just want to sit here with you for a second and acknowledge how much this must suck. Sounds like it wasn't what you planned for, happened later in life. I don't know anything about you other than what you just shared, but I just want to sit here and say it sucks. And I'm sorry. Sorry that you have to go through that.

Roger: I'm not going to give a detailed answer of what you must do, could do, should do. But I want to say that this needs to be a month-long topic because it is a big issue and it can be devastating. I think of family members that had gotten divorced where it was thrust upon them and it changed the course of their life. It's painful to see from afar.

Roger: But I do want to give you a must-do. When it's appropriate, I think you must go through that grieving process, getting mad, getting sad, denying, all that stuff. Obviously this is something to grieve at some point. And this is what I say to someone who loses a spouse, at the appropriate time and when I feel I have enough relational currency to say it. What you must do is acknowledge: this really sucks. And affirm: I am going to have a great retirement. It's going to be different than what I planned for, what I expected, and maybe even what you wanted. It's going to be different, but I'm going to make it a great retirement. I'm going to rock it.

Roger: Regardless of what happened emotionally, financially, relationally, I know how that blows up all of this. At some point, Danny, you need to tell yourself and affirm: yeah, this sucks, but I'm going to be okay. And I wish for you to get to that point.

Roger: And then as for what you should do, a lot of this is just shedding the skin of that past self as a married man with a plan, and building your new life up from scratch. That begins with how you organize your life, what you see for the next one, two, three years. Keep the aperture tight, though, when you get overwhelmed. If you start thinking about the next 30 years, it can get really overwhelming. When you're under stress, you want to close that aperture and just think in small little bits. What can I do this moment? What can I do today, this week, this month?

Roger: I'm going to take this and make a month-long theme out of it. I'll figure out the schedule. But the things you must do: close that aperture and get to the point where you can put a flag in the ground and say you're going to create a great life. And I think the Rockin' Retirement in the Wild story that we're going to share later is an illustration, a different story than yours, but an exemplar of somebody who is working it and seems to have that affirmation and conviction for themselves.

ROGER SHARES HIS EXPERIENCE USING MEDISHARE AND DISCUSSES IMPORTANT HEALTHCARE CONSIDERATIONS BEFORE CHOOSING ALTERNATIVES TO ACA COVERAGE.

Mike: My wife and I retired this year. We are currently on COBRA. However, it will be ending soon and we're looking at a few options. Number one, MediShare, being one of them. We are both healthy and very active. Our cost per month is right about $500 a month. That is the $12,000 we pay first as a deductible, then no deductible after that. Plenty of income to cover the things that arise in life. I'm 59, she's 58. Option two is ACA premiums, which would cost $1,000 a month with similar deductibles. The main advantage of MediShare is that we live in Arizona for six months out of the year and five months in Minnesota. The ACA would require us to move our main doctors to Arizona, whereas MediShare would allow us to keep our current doctors. So what did you end up choosing if you don't mind, with MediShare? What was your concern with it?

Roger: Mike, I walked this journey many years ago. My wife and I were on MediShare. A similar premium actually, which is crazy, given how far back it was. Similar deductible, et cetera. And what we discovered, Mike, was that it worked fine because we were relatively healthy, very active, minimal prescriptions, all of that. What ended up happening in our case was my wife got diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, and the medications she needs for that are biologics. They're the ones you see all the commercials on. These medications cost significant amounts of money. And when we were on MediShare, they cover sometimes some prescriptions, but when it comes to these very expensive prescriptions, they don't cover them. Now I'm saying this from my experience, and this was a number of years ago, so this whole scheme might have changed. But we ended up in the position, the surprise, of: wow, Shawna needs this medicine, and it's like $7,000 to $8,000 a month at the time.

Roger: MediShare would not cover it because they are very light on the prescription end of it, and private prescription drug coverage isn't the best. We were going to be on the hook for $7,000 a month for a medicine that had a material impact on her quality of life. We were very lucky that all of this happened right around the time of open enrollment for ACA. So we were able to put her on ACA, I stayed on MediShare for a few years after that, in order for her to have much more significant drug coverage to make that cost manageable.

Roger: Now think about that though. If she had been diagnosed in January, she would have had to wait essentially 12 months to be able to go on that medicine and have any insurance coverage for it, unless we were willing to pay the cost ourselves. We were very blessed that this whole transition happened during open enrollment for ACA.

Roger: So that is the experience that we had, Mike, that caused us to switch. I just had her switch and then a few years later I switched. I don't use healthcare that often. MediShare, I have numerous examples of people where it has worked very well for them, even when they've gone through cancer. So I'm not going to say it's not an option. But it's not health insurance. I love the concept of it. But you want to look for those gaps, and a lot of those gaps are going to be about those significant events and/or the medications that you might need to take if, for example, someone gets diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis. And I just made the judgment call. I'm blessed that I can afford the premiums. They're annoying as all get out. We complain about them all the time, but I have literal insurance that is obligated to back everything I need within the realms of the policy. So that's where I ended up on that choice, Mike.

ROGER RESPONDS TO LISTENER FEEDBACK ON LONGEVITY PLANNING AND BALANCING THE RISK OF OVERSPENDING VERSUS RUNNING OUT OF MONEY.

Dave: Hey, Roger. I'm glad you and the doctor brought up this topic because people should know there is no right answer from a mathematical point of view. If you're calculating a retirement plan for today's 50-year-old man who dies at 79, then you are helping at least 50% of your customers or people potentially live the rest of them with fewer resources than they would need if they were going to live longer. However, calculating for 95 plus only helps about 10% of your customers, according to the statistics. Two points as you discuss this: people must look at their current health, food and exercise habits, and genetics to make the right decision, but generally side with the doctor to dial it down from 92. Second point: address the die-with-zero people. I'll bet a big percentage of, say, 89-year-olds will need a chunk of money to cover assisted living and the cost of a life-ending diagnosis. I would also suggest planning to die with, say, $200,000.

Roger: Well, thanks for the feedback, Dave. I think doctors are very hesitant to do this, by the way, to dial in a longevity estimate in my experience. And I think we do need to take all those factors into account. And ultimately this is going to be a year-by-year decision where you're navigating the tension between leaning into life and being safe long-term in case you're one of the outliers, because running out of money before you die is a failure and we don't want to do that. But we also don't want to die with too much money. There's a balance in between.

Roger: And I often think of it as a seesaw where I'm standing in the middle, trying to balance the tension between those two things. We're not going to do it perfectly from a long-term planning perspective, but what we can do is make year-by-year decisions to lean into life while assessing the long-term risks. And I think if we can do that, that's good enough to have the confidence to rock retirement. Thanks for your feedback.

ROCKIN' RETIREMENT IN THE WILD

BETH SHARES AN UPDATE ON HER RETIREMENT TRANSFORMATION AFTER LEAVING A STRESSFUL HEALTHCARE CAREER AND INTENTIONALLY CREATING A SIMPLER LIFE CENTERED AROUND FLEXIBILITY, JOY, AND FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY.

Roger: Okay, now it's time for a special Rockin' Retirement in the Wild story, and then we'll get to a Smart Sprint. This one comes from Beth, who is a long-time friend of the show who has been kind enough to share her journey along the way. And I think it's very instructive. Big kudos to Beth for her intentional action, step by step, in entering the danger. Beth, from me to you, you should be very proud of yourself in the life that you are creating. I remember the initial email that you sent, and we have the dates because you shared them in your comments. You've come so far. I'm going to read a lot of Beth's comments because I think it's just special and instructive.

Beth: Greetings, Roger. I reached out to you in January 2023. You answered my question on January 18th of that year. At which time I described myself as a 60-year-old divorced and burnt-out healthcare worker with inadequate savings to retire. You gave me such hope when you described my situation not as a failure, but rather as normal. You encouraged me to design a life that you can bring joy to, even if it requires working, but working at a pace and doing something that you can still have some time for freedom and recuperation. That sounded like a good plan to me.

Beth: The remainder of that year, I went hard in the paint. I continued to work the healthcare job that I disliked, as well as work every weekend and many evenings at other facilities. I maxed out everything in my 401k, IRA, and HSA and saved additional money in a brokerage account. I researched, planned, and crunched numbers, and at the end of the year I was ready to go, to let go of the rope I was clinging to in order to grasp the next one.

Roger: So that was her first stage. She was in a job she hated, felt really behind the eight ball financially, and didn't know where to go.

Beth: I reached out to you again in April of 2024. You mentioned this on the April 10th, 2024 podcast. To describe the path forward that I took, which was to create a livable yet sustainable budget, quit my healthcare job, move to an apartment on the main street of a quaint and walkable small town, take a part-time job at a quaint little gift store, steps from my apartment, take part of my $75,000 in savings and create a five-year CD ladder to supplement my income, take my widow's Social Security benefit, and sign up for health insurance on the marketplace.

Beth: People can be quick to assume that one cannot have a content, enjoyable, and sustainable life living on a small budget. But I have been doing it for quite some time and would have to disagree. I am 63 years old, how did that happen?, and life is great. I have been tracking every cent that I earn and spend, and have done so since my divorce in 2017. I use the Every Dollar Budget app on my phone to track all of my incoming and outgoing expenses as they occur. I slide whatever I don't spend in a given month over to my vacation and savings account.

Beth: I love my life. I am content. I have time. I have peace. I lack nothing. I am no longer tethered to a job that I dislike. Last year, my daughter and I were able to take vacations to Portland, Maine; Quebec; Minnesota; multiple trips to Detroit to see our family and hockey games, go Red Wings!, and a nine-day cruise on the East Coast into Canada, all of which I funded out of my vacation budget. I love my part-time job, two to three days a week, that I walk to. I also love walking to the park, library, bookstores, coffee shops. The YMCA is less than a mile away. The grocery store is two to three miles away.

Beth: People say that a person cannot live on a small budget, but it funds the most amazing life for me. What don't I have? I don't have property taxes, mortgage, large utility bills, home maintenance, or room for extravagant purchases. I keep a healthy emergency fund and an HSA just in case. Interestingly, a just-in-case happened recently when I tripped over a curb I didn't see and fell, breaking my hand, resulting in surgery. I quickly hit my $8,500 out-of-pocket expenses, and I guess now I will have free healthcare services for the rest of the year. I feel prepared for a change of circumstances.

Beth: Anyway, I just wanted to reach out and express my gratitude to you once again. You opened my eyes to consider other possibilities and you gave me such hope. I hope that others will consider that lives and finances are not a one-size-fits-all and that a smaller and more simple life can be a good one, perhaps even a better one. Wishing you good health and much happiness.

Roger: Holy cow, Beth. You exemplify not just talking about it, but being about it. And it makes me go back to Danny and our conversation about gray divorce at the beginning of all of this, that affirmation. Because if you pay attention to the words that you use, and I didn't share all of what you wrote, thank you for the update, if you pay attention to the words, they're always exhibiting the three elements of hope. You see a future for yourself. You're finding things that you can control. And you're experimenting to find pathways. I don't see any victim talk in how you're approaching it.

Roger: And I'm going to guess, Beth, as celebratory as your update is, and it is so celebratory, it just makes me cry, as celebratory as it is, I have no doubt that there have been hard times, dark moments and questioning. That is just part of the journey. But you've kept chipping away, bit by bit. You are an exemplar of rocking retirement, and it just warms my heart. So thank you so much for sharing that. I wish you good health and much happiness as well.

SMART SPRINT

IDENTIFY THE CHALLENGES YOU MAY FACE IN DECLUTTERING YOUR THINGS, FINANCES, OR RELATIONSHIPS AND JOT DOWN ONE POSSIBLE STRATEGY TO OVERCOME EACH OBSTACLE.

Roger: And we're off to set a little baby step you can take in the next seven days to not just rock retirement, but rock life. All right, in the next seven days, take a piece of paper. Last week we did the opportunities. Now write down some challenges you think you might face in each one of those domains, and then just loosely jot down a strategy or two of how you will overcome those. Doesn't have to be any grand plan, but just acknowledging and writing down the challenges and hurdles you might have to face will start to activate and acknowledge them rather than acting like the whole process will be rosy. And that can apply to decluttering as we're talking about, or to gray divorce, or to what Beth has gone through, or to uncertainty and anxiety about retirement. Acknowledging those challenges is a really important step in making progress in anything you're trying to do, including rocking retirement.

Roger: All right, next week on the show, we're going to wrap up this series on decluttering with bringing on an expert, Lindsey Hardagree from ‘Get Organized Y'all.’ She is affiliated with Marie Kondo and the organizing method. We got connected through that organization and she did a special meetup in the Rock Retirement Club with our members, and we recorded the audio on how to approach all of the things that we're talking about in order to do it in a way that doesn't become overwhelming. So I'm excited about that. And then in June, we're going to have a month of answering your listener questions. So if you have a question for the show, you can go to askroger.me. Have a wonderful day.

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