transcript

Speech-to-text transcription can look a little quirky. Please excuse any grammar or spelling errors.

Episode #637 - Should I move my 401k into an IRA when I retire?

Roger: Today on the show, you’re going to learn how to chop, mix, wash your way to rocking retirement.

Roger: Hey there, welcome to the show dedicated to helping you not just survive retirement, but to have the confidence because you're focused on the right things so you can lean in and rock it. My name is Roger Whitney. I'm excited to hang out with you here today. So today on the show, we are going to be answering listener questions. In fact, we're going to be doing that the entire month of this five week month, just focusing on questions you have. And hopefully we can help you take a little baby step towards rocking retirement. At the end of today's show, we're also gonna be sharing what's on our bookshelf. I read every month and a lot of our team reads. We may end up doing this at the end of every show because I'm getting so many book recommendations from listeners, but also the team that it's hard to list them all. Reading's a wonderful habit. And then, well, that's it. That's what we're gonna do today. Yeah, that one last thing I forgot. Big shout out to everybody that hung out with me last Saturday on the Noodle Live. We did basically a big Zoom room where we just hung out Saturday morning with a cup of coffee and talked about the podcast and questions and retirement. It was awesome to hang out with you. We'll have to do that again just to hang out and chill out on a Saturday morning. So we'll keep you up to date on that. OK, now we're done. So we're to go to a rocking retirement in the wild story from Dougie D.

A MEMORABLE TRAVEL STORY FROM DOUG IN GREECE AND THE VALUE OF EXPERIENTIAL TRAVEL

Roger: All right, we got a rocking retirement in the wild story from Dougie D. And I'm also gonna call this a retirement life lab because this is a great recommendation to take your travel and experiences to a new level. So I'm just gonna read what Dougie D, Doug D is what he wrote, but I like Dougie. It makes me, you're like an 80s rapper, dude. Here's what he wrote. My wife and I recently had a wonderful trip to Greece. After marveling at the Parthenon and the Acropolis, we took a jet ferry over to a smaller island. We decided to take a cooking class, which turned out to be a great decision. Doug says, picture this, two Greek grandmas adorned in aprons with the logo of the restaurant and us all in the kitchen. They speak very little English and we speak no Greek. It was all Greek to us, Doug says, very funny Doug. Greeks can be very assertive and talk with their hands. Wash, means wash your hands. Chop, means chop the vegetables, not your fingers. Once we got the ingredients prepared, we were giggling because of the passion and energy these two grandmas had. Now we had to mix the ingredients with the ground lamb. Mix, mix! Meant use your hands to mix it all together. Clearly, I wasn't doing it correctly because one of the grandmas mixed my bowl very aggressively from the other side of the table. By now, we were laughing hysterically at the grandma's chop, mix, wash commands, which was the extent of their English. We made meatballs, sauce, Greek salad, zucchini, croquettes, and enjoyed a delicious lunch at the end. We had such an amazing, fun, delicious experience. So now that when we travel, we will look for cooking classes in our destination country for a delightful experience. Thank you for what you do. That is a wonderful story, Doug. I can just picture this and you not mixing your bowl aggressively enough. And this leads to a conversation. And this is why I think it's part of a retirement life lab is segment as well, Doug, and everyone else is that when you are looking to say travel or do something with a child or a grandchild or your spouse or friends, we were having this discussion about not just going out to eat or going to the park, which those are wonderful things, but actually taking classes together enhances the experiences in different ways.

THE SIGNIFICANCE OF EXPERIENCES OVER SOUVENIRS FOR MEANINGFUL RETIREMENT MEMORIES

Roger: This, I think my brother-in-law, we're talking about this and he was decluttering his closet of t-shirts and hats that he had purchased when he was on vacation, you know, over the years. And we talked about how these things that we buy them when we travel, because they're sort of a token to try to memorialize where we are, but they end up not having a lot of meaning because it's just a hat or a t-shirt or that meaning degrades over time and it just becomes clutter. Whereas if you do something similar to Doug, although he ate the food, he wasn't able to take it home. If you do an experiential thing, many times you can create a token or a souvenir that has much more meaning. Like a good example would be, I think it's four or five years ago now, my son Spencer for my birthday or Christmas bought me a blacksmithing experience. And we went to this blacksmith, I think I talked about it on the show, and he and I spent the day with a gentleman who was a blacksmith. He was an army vet, had his own blacksmith shop. And we spent the day learning how to do it, hammering and putting it into fire and twisting it, et cetera. And at the end of it, we had ⁓ a railroad spike knife that Spencer and I with the aid of the blacksmith created. And we have a leather sheath for it. And it's on my desk back in Texas. Now that is a souvenir that when I pick up 10 years from now or Spencer picks up 30 years from now is going to bring us back to that experience that we had together. And you sort of did that, Doug. So I agree. Go find cooking classes, but also consider other types of things. It could be quilting, jewelry making, art, something that you can do with someone you love that can take your experience and memory creation to the next level. So Doug, thanks so much for sending that in. Hope it was good. Now let's get to answering your questions.

ADDRESSING LISTENER QUESTIONS ON MANAGING RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS AND CONSOLIDATING ASSETS

Roger: So now it's time to answer your questions. If you have a question for the show, you can go to askroger.me and you can type in your question or leave an audio question. Just a quick hint, audio questions typically get the fast pass when we're putting these shows together, because we love to hear your voices. So you can do that at askroger.me.

HANDLING REQUIRED MINIMUM DISTRIBUTIONS AND TAX CONSIDERATIONS FOR LATE RETIREES (VERN'S STORY)

Roger: So our title question comes from Vern. Hey Roger, question here from Vern daddy. Hey, that could be an eighties rapper too. I’m from North Carolina by way of Denver, go Broncos. I pretty much love what I do for a living, but I've been winding down for the last four years. I'm an environmental geoscience project manager working in a large engineering consulting firm. And I purposely have gone from 55 hours a week for many years, as recently as 2022, to maybe 15 hours now. I wasn't sure when I was gonna pull the plug completely. And I got tired of looking at my dashboard at Charles Schwab where a good portion of my nest egg was at my company's 401k plan, which was at Merrill Lynch. And it was difficult to look at the portfolio balance, even though I had these things linked together. So I transferred the pre-tax and Roth monies from my Merrill Lynch plan over to my IRA accounts at Schwab in order to consolidate. So now it sounds like Vern, you can see most of the money all in one place. That was three years ago, Vern says, and one, not to go without a free match, I've continued to contribute 6 % to the Roth to get the match. My plan of record is strong. The recent Schwab Monte Carlo engine was at 98%. I'll be 70 in a few months and about to push off to hourly. Anyway, my question is I built up about $60,000 at that Merrill Lynch account. Is there any reason to hold on to keep some money at the company 401k? I'd rather not unless there is some compelling reason to have that plan. What do you say?

All right, Vern, well stated. I love this slowing down into retirement. So is there a reason to keep the plan? In your case, I don't think that there is a compelling reason to keep money in the 401k. What will happen is when you are no longer contributing, you will likely get a match for that year, for the portion of the year that you were contributing to the plan. And depending on the 401k plan, either make that employer match every pay period or they'll do it at the end of the year. So if you were to unwind it and move that 60,000 into your Schwab IRAs, you may have a residual contribution later for whatever match the employer owes you, which means you may have to do another rollover later on. So there's a wrinkle there. But in your case, I don't see any reason, compelling reason to keep the 401k at Merrill Lynch and not just have it all consolidated.

REASONS TO KEEP OR ROLL OVER 401(K) ASSETS, INCLUDING INERTIA, ACCESS, AND CREDITOR PROTECTION

Roger: Now, what are common reasons that someone might keep assets at a 401k plan rather than moving it to an individual retirement account and or a Roth depending on the tax treatment? Well, a lot of reasons people keep their assets at the 401k is number one is just inertia. They've had the account for years. They know how to log in. It's just too much of a hassle to roll it over to an IRA because every plan is different. So a lot of times it's just inertia. It's good enough and I can keep track of it. That's one reason people would keep money in a 401k. Another would be is if they were retiring after age 55, but before 59 and a half and wanted to access the rule of 55 in order to take money out of their retirement accounts prior to 59 and a half without penalty. Now, not all 401Ks offer that, but the money has to stay in a 401K plan in order to do that. Another reason why people might keep money in a 401K rather than move it to an IRA is that they make too much money to do Roth contributions, but they want to do a backdoor Roth contribution, which we've talked about before. And in order to do that, efficiently, you really want to minimize your individual retirement account assets. That might be a reason.

Sometimes the funds in the 401k plan are very low cost. We see a lot of government employees that are not in a 401k, but a 403b that has very low cost investment options and that works well for them. Another reason might be access to a stable value fund, which isn't as important right now because interest rates are relatively normal or they're at least not at zero and a stable value fund. They're very attractive when interest rates are extremely low, but you only can get access to that if you're in a 401k. Another reason would be there are some added creditor protection with a qualified plan, which a 401k is, and that depends state by state, and that is a concern for some. You still have creditor protection in an IRA, but the level is a little bit lower. In practice, it doesn't really matter. In 35 years I've never had and I've never known anybody to have an issue with creditors coming after the retirement counts, etc. But it could happen.

And then the last reason I'll just mention here is that sometimes it feels good not to have all your eggs in one basket. That is one reason why some people don't want to consolidate all of their assets, whether it's Schwab or Fidelity or any place. Now that reason I think is more mirrors than substance because when you're at Schwab, it's your individual account, you can still be well diversified. I don't think that's a really compelling reason, but those are some of the reasons. But for you, VernDaddy, I think this makes total sense. Just realize that if you move it now to get it all into Schwab, you may have a contribution from the employer that you'll have to move again later. So you might have to do that work twice. That's not a reason not to do it, but just FYI.

AUDIO QUESTION: USING SOFTWARE VERSUS HUMAN JUDGMENT IN ROTH CONVERSIONS AND TAX PLANNING

Roger: All right, our next question is one of my favorite questions because it is an audio question.

Wayne: Hello, Roger. This is Wayne from Maine calling. And before I get to my question, I wanted to thank you for this platform. It was only after joining the Rock Retirement Club did I realize I actually could retire. I originally thought that after finishing my career overseas in West Africa, I would have to find some more work back in the U.S. But after listening to the program and creating a plan through Money Guide Elite, I saw a clear path to retirement. Woohoo! This community is truly special. I have messaged both you and Kevin Liles and received immediate responses from you both and you even offered to hop on a call with me. I find this personal touch just really amazing and what a special program you have created here. My question relates to this month's topic of health insurance. It's very timely as I recently retired at the age of 61. In your February 4th episode, you mentioned your personal situation of spending over $40,000 in insurance, including meeting the maximum out-of-pocket limit, OOP. My wife and I have a high deductible health plan with a $75,000 deductible each and a total family OOP of $20,000. When entering spending goals into MoneyGuide Elite, should I list that full $20,000 every year? I did that last year, but we didn't spend close to that amount. And budgeting $20,000 annually until we reach the age of 65 significantly impacts our confident meter. What are your thoughts on the best way to list these insurance spending goals? Should I budget for the worst case maximum every year or is there a more realistic middle ground? Roger, I appreciate your thoughts on this and I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers.

PLANNING HEALTHCARE EXPENSES REALISTICALLY AND THE USE OF DEFAULT ACTUARIAL DATA (WAYNE’S INSURANCE QUESTION)

Roger: We got a lot of rhyming going on today. We got Vern Daddy and we got Wayne from Maine. So Wayne, really good question. So let me summarize the facts here. So you have a high deductible plan with a, sounds like a $7,500 out of pocket and then a 20K maximum out of pocket. And the question is, when you're entering your healthcare goal in, you mentioned Money Guide Elite because that's what we offer in the club, but really any financial planning software, should you enter the fact that, okay, worst case scenario, that maximum out of packet each year, in your case would be $20,000 per year. I would say, no, do not do that. So the default that we use for modeling out-of-pocket expenses, and this comes from a database, is $3,763 a year ⁓ for a male, $3,965 out-of-pocket for a female. It's always good to start with a default that has some basis to it, and this happens to just come from Actuary around healthcare for retirees, so we just use that as a default, not the 20,000 out of pocket as a family, as you mentioned, Wayne, because that is excessive.

STRATEGIES FOR CUSTOMIZING HEALTHCARE OUT-OF-POCKET EXPENSES AND UTILIZING HSAS

Roger: So now that we have a default, which might be an average out of pocket using some aggregate math or statistics, now Wayne, you can customize what it is that you would use based on your past usage and your health. That was where I would take that average that we get from studies and then tweak it to your individual experience. So Wayne, I would start there and then evaluate, how much of a consumer of healthcare are you and or your wife? So you mentioned me. So as an example with me, Shauna hits out of pocket in January or February every year because she has a condition where the medicine she takes is extremely expensive. It's a biologic. So she maxes out every year to her maximum, we'll call it 7,500 for the year. I don't, I hardly use my healthcare. In fact, normally I will just pay cash for everything because it's so minimal for me. So if I were Wayne, I would enter maybe the average for males, $3,763 is out-of-pocket expenses. But for my wife, Shauna, I would enter the out-of-pocket maximum of $7,500 in addition to our premiums. So you can really customize that for yourself. Since you have a high deductible policy, a good practice would be to contribute to a health savings account because you can deduct that from your taxes. And that will build a tax free bucket and the goal would be to build up enough money to cover the maximum out of pocket. So that way if you ever did have an incident that hit that you would have the money in reserves in your health savings account. So that's how I'd approach that way. And sorry for a little bit of the delay, but that's how I would do it.

CORRECTING MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT MAGI AND ACA SUBSIDIES (MICHAEL’S FEEDBACK)

Roger: Next we have some feedback from a question I answered on a prior episode and we'll put that episode link in the noodle so you can refer back to it from Michael who is correcting the record because Roger misspoke. Hey Roger, this is Mike. Love your podcast and listen to it religiously. Wanted to give some feedback on today's session. I think it was like marker number 26. A person wrote about wanting to get a pool. For $40,000 and how it's going to affect his ACA subsidy and his AGI. And in your answer, I think there needs to be a clarification that your MAGI, which is what's used for your ACA, is calculated before any standard or itemized deductions. So his question was, hey, I'm going to do an inherited IRA for $40,000. And can I reduce my AGI by $40,000 so I get below the subsidy? And you cannot do that. Once you do the inherited IRA, that goes into your MAGI. But if you write off $40,000 on your medical bills, that is not a deduction in your MAGI for the ACA subsidy. So that, I believe, is a common mistake by people. They think it's my taxable income, which is after your deductions. But the ACA subsidy does it by MAGI. And that is done before any deductions are taken into consideration. Of course, the only things that really are pre-tax retirement plans, HSAs, self-employed insurance, things like that. There's only a few things you can do to really lower your MAGI in what I call above the line before the subsidy's calculated. Hope that's helpful and keep up the great work. Awesome, Mike. Thank you so much for correcting the record. Thank you for correcting it with such grace and in a helpful spirit. There's so much to remember and we all get it wrong. So thanks, buddy.

INSIGHTS ON THE BLIND SPOTS OF RETIREMENT PLANNING SOFTWARE AND AI’S ROLE IN FINANCIAL PLANNING

Roger: All right, next we have another audio and this is actually from a team member of our firm related to retirement planning software and where a lot of the blind spots are. Now I'm just gonna play one that she discovers in her work because she works in retirement planning software every day. She sent me about three or four related to a lot of times related to taxes and how software has such limitations in terms of, if going to sell a rental property, it doesn't understand the capital gains part of it and recapture on other income. It doesn't know how to apply it tax wise. So she's discovered many of them. So I thought I'd play you just one to get a sense for some of the blind spots and limitations of retirement planning software.

LIMITATIONS OF MODELING TOOLS AND THE IMPORTANCE OF HUMAN DISCERNMENT IN TAX STRATEGIES

Erin: Hey, Roger. I wanted to share with you something that I come across sometimes when using our planning software to analyze Roth conversion strategies. We will often aim for the top of the 22 % tax bracket for conversions because the top of that bracket aligns somewhat closely with the first IRMA tier. And we try to keep folks out of IRMA when we can. So we build in a buffer to keep a safe distance back from that cliff. When using the planning software, I tell the system what marginal tax bracket to fill and it can model out a multi-year Roth conversion strategy, which allows me to see the potential lifetime tax savings for the client. And it also shows the effect of the conversion on Irma. Now, since the top of the 22 % tax bracket requires the system to add back in the standard deduction, that can push conversion years over the Irma cliff. I can't complain about the software because it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do, but it can only optimize for the targets it allows me to set and then rigidly follow those inputs. It doesn't recognize that a slightly smaller conversion avoids IRMA and produces a better overall outcome. If I were to simply trust the software, I might be less likely to recommend the conversion or even forego it entirely. It takes a human looking at those numbers to realize that the best solution isn't found in a single model or in the software outputs, but in good old fashioned human judgment. The software is a great tool for feasibility, but personal discernment is what is required to make the final thoughtful decision. Hope you find this helpful.

Roger: So that's a great example of limitations of software. And we just don't know what's going on in the background. And that's one reason why software is best used for proof of concept. And discernment or judgment needs to happen when you're looking at the numbers. For us, it would be literally in a spreadsheet so we could see and understand the interaction of everything. Because it's easy to miss these things.

THE EMERGING ROLE OF AI AS A THINKING PARTNER IN RETIREMENT PLANNING

Roger: Now in the Rock Retirement Club, I saw someone posted a podcast and I forget the name of the podcast. It's one of the great retirement podcasts out there. And it was all about how to use AI as your thinking partner. Now I have not listened to the show, but this idea of using AI to assist us with retirement planning really does have some legs. And I think there's a lot of value there if we understand the limitations of the tool and we understand how to use it properly. And I'm going to have a series at some point on AI and retirement planning because I use it, but it can be dangerous because of some of the just natural limitations in the background. For example, it's going to respond to your prompt and it's looking to please you with the answer that it gives. And when it's thinking about the answer, it's not thinking about finding the correct answer. It's internally just trying to guess the next right word and then the answer comes from that. And I have many experiences of asking, prompting it, getting an answer that it gives me with confidence in the words that it uses. And then I'll challenge the answer because I know that that's not the whole story. And then it will start to go down a rabbit. Yeah, you're right. I didn't consider that. Or we have to look at this. And if you don't know enough to be able to do that, you may accept it as well, gospel or the truth when it's really not. And so very similar to using a retirement plan and software, I'm excited to do that AI series. I've been holding back on it actually because everybody is all gaga about AI. And rightfully so, large language models are awesome. But it reminds me a lot of the internet craze of everybody wanting to be in it and everybody wants to use it as soon as possible because it's cool, it's where the money is. I mean, there's a lot of talk about how everybody's gonna get left behind, a lot of worries about it, just like there was with the internet, but it's still in its early stage. Even with the most advanced models, I use the most advanced I can purchase in my testing with it. Better to be slow with this stuff. Go ahead and use it and get familiar with it, but don't think about it, like we don't use it with our client data because we have no clue of the security of it. And I've talked to people that know and they don't know. Even the people that make the tools really don't know. So good to play slow on it, but they're definitely something you used to using, but have their blind spots. Thanks so much, Erin.

MANAGING REQUIRED MINIMUM DISTRIBUTIONS AND TAX PLANNING FOR LATE RETIREES (MICHELLE’S SITUATION)

Roger: All right, our next question comes from a new listener, Michelle. Michelle says, I am a new listener. I'm a widow and retired in December, 2025. I turned 73 in January. Michelle says, I am very nervous about required minimum distributions and taxes in general. I believe he will be helping me with this once I get all of my accounts transferred over. But I'm wondering if it wouldn't be smarter to go to a CPA? It's a really good question, Michelle. So let's talk through this a little bit. I do agree with the Morgan Stanley advisor that having all of the assets in one place is much easier to manage because one person, whether that's you and or this advisor can see everything, can understand the allocation account by account, can coordinate things when it comes to investing or withdrawals, et cetera. So it definitely makes sense from that perspective. And when you get to the required minimum distribution age, Michelle, which it sounds like you're about there, is if you have multiple IRAs in different places, the IRS doesn't think about that. The IRS wants its required minimum distribution based on all of the pre-tax assets in traditional IRAs. That's the number that's going to be used to calculate your required minimum distribution. So if you have an IRA at Morgan Stanley, that's say $500,000, and you have an IRA at another firm that is $600,000, the required minimum distribution has to include both of those. Now you can make the payment out of one of those, but if your Morgan Stanley advisor is helping you with the calculation for the required minimum distribution, they would need to know the year end balance of the outside account and have to get that from you because they wouldn't be able to see it. So there's some coordination that can happen there. So it makes sense that it's easier to manage. It definitely helps if there are multiple IRAs to get them all into one for calculation of required minimum distributions. Also, it's just very much simpler to track and much simpler to handle as we all get older. Now,

USING PROFESSIONAL HELP VS. DIY APPROACHES FOR RMDS AND TAXES

Roger: Who will help you with your required minimum distributions and taxes? Now this is a different lens that we're gonna look at here, Michelle. Number one, it's likely that a Morgan Stanley advisor could help you with calculating the required minimum distribution. Although they may help you with that number and a lot of custodians will give you the number based on the account, they're not gonna be liable for that number being right or wrong. That's still always gonna come back to you. But they should be able to help you calculate that number. Now that said, they are specifically prohibited from giving tax advice. Pretty much every major firm can give tax forecasting, can discuss it, but there's always gonna be the disclaimer that you need to go to your CPA, you need to go to a tax expert, and we do not give tax advice. At Morgan Stanley, I can almost guarantee they do not give tax advice, even if in the moment they might act like it. So that's really important to understand that they just can't, they're prohibited from doing that. And that's a compliance and liability thing. Now, you mentioned that you had a CPA in the past because you had a little bit more complicated situation and you still know that person and you could go back to them. And that definitely is an option. But in your case, again, I only know what you've shared here. If you have a relatively simple tax situation because you don't run your business anymore. You're not writing books anymore, as you mentioned, all those types of things. A CPA might be overkill. CPAs are in high demand. Their communication could be tight because there aren't enough of them because of a whole host of reasons. So you could go to your CPA and you have a relationship, so that might be a great place to go. But if it's overkill, another thing you could do, Michelle, is, if it's relatively simple, there's a couple in-betweens. The AARP has a volunteer tax preparer program. In fact, Erin, who you heard, is an enrolled agent and she volunteers for the AARP to help do tax returns for retirees. And that, I believe, is a free service. So there's this army of people that volunteer for AARP that you could go to them and we'll put a link to that in the noodle. I'm sure Nicole that Erin can get you that link. Or you could go to a tax preparer such as an H &R block structure where there's someone down the road where they know enough to help do the tax return for you, but they're not gonna likely charge the same amount as a CPA. That would get you the tax expertise without potentially the added costs for the CPA. In terms of the Morgan Stanley Advisor and consolidating all of your assets there, it's really gonna come down to do you feel you have a connection with this person. Do you feel that they are trustworthy and do they communicate well? And does it feel like they have a process for helping be responsive as you're dealing with all these little nitpicky issues? You know, you always want to be served by someone that has a heart of service and not sales because that always is going to get you a better result. So Michelle, hopefully that gives you some guidance on how to consolidate your accounts and who to rely on for tax advice.

DAN’S PURSUIT OF A MEANINGFUL SECOND CAREER IN FINANCIAL LITERACY AND HOW TO PREPARE

Roger: Our next question comes from Dan, Dan the man, he didn't say that I did. Dan says, for many years, I have been passionate about financial literacy, education, and counseling. My desire once I retire is to work part-time as a financial counselor and or advisor, mostly to help people. Compensation is not my top concern or goal here, mostly having purpose in retirement and helping others. In particular, I enjoy budgeting, tax planning, and investment guidance. The question I have is, what can I do now to help get me ready for this second career? Based on my research I've done so far, my plan right now is to obtain the accredited financial counselor certification likely this year, follow that up later with the chartered financial consultant, and I would likely not pursue the CFP program due to work requirements. Does this sound like a good plan for you or do you have any other suggestions? Dan, this is a really good question and I know a number of people that have this same spirit about them. All of the coaches in the Rock Retirement Club, Mark and Kevin and Kevin and Andy and Tanya and Susan, I never want to forget anybody. keep getting, they keep multiplying. All of these people serve not because of the money, because they're passionate about it and they're trying to give back. And then in this case, they're doing it with retirees and talking on the show. So I call out to them to send me a note that I can share with Dan on a future episode. And then you have another group of people. I can think of Mark Trotman, a great podcast, Mark's Money Mind, who has a heart for teaching financial literacy to younger folks so they can grow a healthy stock as a human and financially. So to answer your question, I would suggest first refining as best you can what exactly you want to do and who you have a heart to serve. Is it financial literacy in high school? Is it early career people? Are they retired people? Define who it is that you want to serve and then start to think about what capacity, because there is a line between financial coach or retirement coach and financial advisor. You know, if we think of the people I mentioned, all but Tanya Nichols and Andy Panko are financial coaches or retirement coaches, meaning that they're not, they don't fall under the regulatory umbrella of the SEC or FINRA. And the line there means that they can't give specific investment advice and recommend mutual funds or stock portfolios, et cetera. There's a line there and it's a very blurry line to be honest with you. But understanding whether you wanna be a coach or an advisor. Now, if you become an advisor, now you're going to be under the regulatory umbrella of the SEC or FINRA. You're going to need to start an investment firm or get attached to an investment firm. Like they have to carry errors and emission insurance, which is totally reasonable, but it becomes much more of a business thing with more overhead than being a financial coach. So you'll want to get an idea of where you want to be. Given the topics that you outline, I think the accredited financial counselor certificate is a great place to start. The chartered financial consultant is likely overkill. So my suggestion would be start with that accredited financial counselor certificate and start volunteering somewhere. Could be at the AARP, could be at your church. I would check out paulmaryman.com, check out Mark Trotman's podcast, Mark's Money Mind, there we go. We'll have links to these in the noodle. But I would start doing this very lightly now, and then you'll figure out which path might be most appropriate for you. All right, that's it for questions today. Now let's move on to the bookshelf.

RECOMMENDED BOOKSHELF: THE ART OF SPENDING MONEY, DEVIL IN THE WHITE CITY, INSIDE THE GREATEST CRASH, AND ONCE AN EAGLE

Roger: All right, our first book comes from Erin Ko. You heard her on the show. She is on our team. And the book that she read is The Art of Spending Money by Morgan Housel. And I'm just gonna share her thoughts. This is the latest book from Morgan Housel, the author of The Psychology of Money. In this book, he focuses on spending and how to do it well. A lot of his concepts feel familiar to the Rock Retirement Club members as they echo what is taught in the club, namely that spending is best done when it aligns with your personal values, not by following the crowd. It talks quite a bit about the balance between spending and saving, most of which is geared toward younger individuals still working towards retirement. However, there are still a lot of good nuggets for retirees in there. If you like his other books, or if you struggle to shift from spending mode to retirement, this would be a quick, easy read that may help you move towards spending goals with renewed vigor. gives it a five out of five. Morgan Housel, I've never actually interacted with him much. I've not read his books, surprisingly. He's so popular. Generally, if somebody is really, really popular, I don't read their books. Isn't that weird? There's that saying about me. tend to, I don't know. I get the gist of it because I've read some of his blog and we have some mutual friends, but I'll have to check it out. So five out of five, The Art of Spending Money by Morgan Housel.

All right, the next book is one that I read and it is a book by Eric Larson, Devil in the White City, Murder, Magic and Madness at the Fair that Changed America. This is one that I've read. First book I read by Eric Larson. This is who? ⁓ I know a client recommended this to me, an avid reader. It essentially tells the story of the World Fair in Chicago. And that was fascinating from, you know, it had just come off the World Fair in Paris where they had the Eiffel Tower. They talk about how Chicago got chosen and all the pressure to outdo the Eiffel Tower in terms of the World Fair. And it introduces all the characters within the Chicago machine that made it happen. And it really gives you a flavor for some, lot of the firsts that came from the Chicago World Fair. Cracker Jacks, Juicy Fruit Gum, Pabst Blue Ribbon. It was a blue ribbon beer. That's how they named it. Alternating Currents. And then what supposedly outdid the World's Fair was, or the Eiffel Tower in Paris, was the Ferris Wheel. And it was a crazy experiment. This dude, Ferris, I forget his first name, just came up with the idea and he got rejected like three or four times. And then they finally said, OK, he built it. And everybody's like, is this thing going to work? I don't know. And it did. Ferris Wheel. That's awesome. Now, overlaid on top of that is a serial killer that was active in Chicago at the same time. So it brings these two weird things together. So you gotta be comfortable with that part of it as well, but an actual person, Howell, I think his name was, and they ultimately track him down at the end, et cetera. So a wonderful book if you like history and you like to learn in a way that makes it interesting. It's factual history with a lot of, I'm sure, artistic license.

All right, our next book comes from Kevin Lyles, our coach, Kevin Lyles, and he read in 1929, Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History and How It Shattered a Nation by Andrew Ross Sorkin. Andrew Ross Sorkin is a, I believe, New York Times writer, good writer. Kevin says, after recommending an 80 page short read last month, I thought I would go big with a 592 page tome this month. Despite its length and small print, though, Sorkin's storytelling makes this book a comfortable, if long read. I hadn't read much about the Great Depression and enjoyed learning about the people and the causes of the economic crash that played such a big part in the last century. He gives it a four out of five rating. Always good to read history.

All right, one last book here from Susan Lee, our newest coach in the Rock Retirement Club. She read Once an Eagle by Anton Murr. Susan says I was first introduced to this book by my late husband. He was a Vietnam War combat vet and son of a career US Naval officer once an Eagles one of his favorite books. Although the story is set in the military, the lessons in leadership and integrity are universal. Five out of five. Thanks Susan. Alright, those are the books for today.

PRACTICE SOLITUDE: A PERSONAL EXPERIMENT WITH UNPLUGGING AND REFLECTION

Roger: Now I'm doing an experiment. I'm not ready to report back to it. My wife just left Colorado to go back home. She has a doctor's appointment, gonna hang out with her mom. And so I'm here alone with Sherlock for about a week. And I'm going to work on practicing solitude. This is day one, literally. She just left this morning. I'm recording this at the end of March. And so I'm going to watch, I have three things I'm gonna watch. I'm gonna watch Hail Mary. I'm gonna watch Shrinking, a show on Apple TV, and I'm going to watch The Pit. Besides that, I'm not gonna watch TV. So I'm gonna work on practicing solitude. I have a decision-making course I'm going through. I have books I wanna read. I wanna just sit and think and ponder, either really big thoughts or really stupid thoughts. I don't know, we'll see what happens there. So I'll report how this goes on lowering the noise in my life and just see what happens. So I'll report back in a few weeks. Hope you're having a wha- wait, we got to set a smart sprint, don't we? Okay, let's go to set a smart sprint.

SMART SPRINT: CREATE AN EXPERIENTIAL GIFT TO CHERISH MEMORIES WITH LOVED ONES

Roger: And we're off to set a little baby step you can take in the next seven days. Not just to rock retirement, but rock life in the next seven days. I challenge you to come up with an experiential gift idea that you can give to someone important in your life on the next occasion. That could be Christmas. That could be their birthday. It could be.

is because you love them, an experience that you and this person can do together and create memories and maybe an artifact that you can hold on to for years. All right, that's the Smart Sprint. This is the show. Have a wonderful day.

The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. All performance references are historical and do not guarantee future results. All indices are unmanaged and cannot be invested in directly. Make sure you consult your legal, tax or financial advisor before making any decisions. This podcast may include testimonials and or endorsements.