transcript

Speech-to-text transcription can look a little quirky. Please excuse any grammar or spelling errors.

Episode #628 - Retire on FIRE: Rocking an Early Retirement - The Challenges of Retiring Early

“Walk with the wise and become wise.”

Roger: Welcome to the show dedicated to helping you not just survive retirement, but to have confidence to lean in and rock it. Because you are focused on the right things and there are so many things to distract you. I'm gonna try to help you maintain that focus. My name is Roger Whitney. Today is our last of the Retirement Plan Live series. Before tomorrow night's results we have our webinar, whatever you want to call it. We're going to hang out with Henry and Lucy tomorrow to see the feasibility of their plan to retire early in their 40s. In this case today on the show, we're going to be sharing wisdom from those that have walked before them, people in their 50s and 60s and even 70s that are already retired. To speak into the life of Henry and Lucy. One of the best ways to learn how to do something or how to overcome something is to talk to people that have walked that journey. Having a strong cohort of people that can pour into you and you can pour into them is really a force multiplier when it comes to creating a great life. So we're going to do that today for Henry and Lucy and hopefully for you as well.

TWO ANNOUNCEMENTS: NEXT MONTH STARTS A HEALTHCARE-BEFORE-MEDICARE SERIES AND THE LISTENER SURVEY IN THE NOODLE IS COMING SOON.

Roger: Two quick announcements before we get started. Number one, next week on the show, we are starting a month-long series on health care before Medicare. We're going to examine the health care landscape if you retire before age 65, what you have to deal with, what your options are, what some tactics are to manage that risk and and then lastly, how to put a health care plan in place before you get to Medicare. So it'll be for me a refresher of thinking through the landscape because it's changed a lot. We haven't done a series like this in, a while. So this helps me refresh my thinking and hopefully it will help you dial in and maybe be a little less intimidated by navigating healthcare before Medicare. So we're going to do that next month. That'll be fun, right?

And then secondly, in our noodle email which we send out every Saturday morning, if you're not signed up for that, you can sign up for it at thenoodle.me it is an amazing supplement to the show. I could argue that sometimes the show is a supplement to the Noodle that we send out every Saturday morning. We are going to have a listener survey, a revised listener survey. And this is your chance, not that you don't have a chance every week by hitting reply to the noodle to share some information with us and help us make this show more impactful for you because you are here to accomplish something, and I want to help you with that when it comes to retirement. So please look out for that survey in the noodle. Okay. With that said, let's get to some of the advice that we received for Henry and Lucy.

WISDOM FROM RETIREES FURTHER ALONG: ROGER READS LISTENER REFLECTIONS FROM RETIREES FURTHER ALONG, SHARING LESSONS ON PURPOSE, WORK, HEALTH, FLEXIBILITY, AND BUILDING A MEANINGFUL RETIREMENT.

Roger: All right, we got a number of people that emailed in some wisdom for Henry and Lucy based on their experience. So we're just going to read a few of these to help them. The first bit of wisdom comes from Margaret and Rodney. Margaret says, what would I tell my 45 year old self? I think what comes to mind is how long ago that was. There's a lot of life between 45 and 61. Since that time I've moved away from responsibilities of raising a family, moving into creating my best life, surrounding myself with a like minded friend group. I had plenty of time to pursue hobbies, workouts and spend quality time with family. So it sounds like for Margaret it was this change of seasons. Just like you change seasons from college life to professional life to family life, this is a whole another change of seasons that you get to take control of now.

Rodney had a little bit of a different view. Rodney says, I know that you hate work as your 45 year old self, but the world needs you and crazy as it sounds, you need work. Work serves a purpose in your life. You need the structure. Vacations and travel are fun because they give you a break. Without work, all of the fun in life would be just a simple routine. So Rodney makes a case that you need to have work, you need to have something that you're striving for. in Rodney's camp here.

All right, let's go to the next one. Debbie. I would gently but determiningly push myself to go. My husband, now deceased, had a lot of health issues. I spent so much time focusing on mitigating our financial situation and potential scenarios that were somewhat unlikely. He got laid off twice in 10 years and both times our net worth increased because we banked the severance and lived on a salary. I was so focused on ensuring we were okay that I couldn't see the distant horizon and how I and we would age. At 45, I was in great health and very active. I could have done long bicycle trips that are now at age 66, much more difficult and pain due to osteoarthritis. The truth is I could have allocated some amount of funds for travel to create memories and enjoy the physical experience. But I was so wiped out in accumulating and living within our or even below our means that I didn't even realize that my great years of pain free movement would not last forever. I would say your memories are also an investment to bank allocate funds to make them for a spreadsheet nerd like me. Even creating a lot a line on your net worth statement, including those expenditures as below the line addendum would show the importance. Oh, Debbie makes a really good point. Gotta make hay while the sun shines. We don't, we're not gonna last forever. I'm 59 as of last week. Oh geez. Oi. I'm 59 and I can feel the aches and pains and I can see some of that. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, Debbie.

All right, Darren says here are some thoughts for Henry and Lucy. By the way, I'm reading these pretty much unedited. I wanted to share what they said. So Darren says here's some thoughts for Henry and Lucy. Until we hear more about their financial situation and goals, it's difficult to provide a lot of specific advice. But I would say that if they can afford to retire, they absolutely should do it. My wife and I retired five to six years ago in our mid-40s and now travel seven plus months each year and work on some passion projects. We recognize that life is short and nobody knows how much time they've got left, so if they can afford to retire, they should do so. In the first segment, Lucy mentioned that if they don't get ACA subsidies, healthcare insurance would cost them about 20,000 more per year. Perhaps that is correct for the specific situation, but we've met many people who don't know what health insurance will cost because they never shopped yet they assume it will be prohibitively expensive, so they continue to work. Our advice is to find a health insurance broker and get actual costs for their options. And if they are planning a significant amount of international travel, a global health insurance plan with US coverage up to six months, he says, can be significantly cheaper than a traditional US based plan. It sounds like Henry and Lucy both demonstrated leadership in their careers and we have noticed that former leaders who are adaptable and creative are very successful early retirees.

All right, now let's go to Troy. Troy says, listening to your interview with Henry and Lucy, my wife and I found ourselves struggling. We just wish they understood that they can actually get paid to do what they love. To us, it sounded like they were miserable with their career choices. Maybe we misunderstood or read between the lines more than we should. We believe that work can be extremely rewarding if you chase your love passion. If you do what you love every day, it really, it's really not work. If I could tell my 45 year old self anything, it would be to remember that I am very blessed. Maybe Chris and I are just lucky, or the fortunate ones, but we both find love in our work. We choose careers that fit us and our passion. Remind your listeners that most often the money is the easy part. Joy and happiness tends to be much more elusive if you choose poorly. FYI, we are 61 and 62, retiring soon, mostly to spend time with our grandkids, travel and give back, pay it forward, so to speak.

All right, let's go to Frank. Frank says, number one, having been retired a few years and very much enjoying the freedom, the thought of having to go back to work is my worst nightmare. So my advice is that you should be very confident in your ability to retire financially. Number two, it was mentioned that you could go back to work if necessary, but if after many years your skills have degraded, you might have to work a minimum wage job. Fine, but one has to put in a lot of hours to bank a minimum wage. Probably not what you had in mind in early retirement. My suggestion, Frank says, would be to develop a side gig, hobby, etc. That has the potential to pay more than minimum wage. Not work full time at it, but work just enough to maintain your skills so that you have the option to ramp up at any time if interested in a craft, woodworking, blacksmith, etc. Once retired, you could apprentice yourself in something that really inspires you and use the skills to earn income.

All right, we got one more here. This is from Christina. Christina says I'm looking forward to your live case study. The following are some thoughts to share with Henry and Lucy. When I was their age and I was super focused on fire, although nobody called it that. Then I paid off my house at 45 and then had an epiphany which was that I was cheating myself on enjoying life by focusing too much on fire. After that I bought a more expensive house with a mortgage in a neighborhood that was much nicer and suited me better. I also treated myself to a new car, a new mountain bike. Love that. And upgrades more frequently. I also went on fabulous vacations. Yes, I had to work five to 10 years longer, but my life was so much more enjoyable than before. So if they're doing fire and feel like their quality of their life is good, then great. Otherwise, loosen the purse strings and enjoy life as none of us is guaranteed tomorrow. Number Two, My dad died in a mountain climbing accident at age 70. Fortunately, he had been enjoying his life to the full after retiring in his early 50s. That woke me up to understanding that I am not guaranteed retirement or even a long retirement. While I retired five to 10 years later than originally planned, I still retired early 60 and have a fabulous life in Salida. Ooh, in Salida. I think we've met and enjoy enjoying being grateful for every moment.

ROGER’S OBSERVATIONS: ROGER SHARES HIS OBSERVATIONS FROM DECADES OF COACHING ON WHAT LEADS TO A FULFILLING RETIREMENT, INCLUDING PERMISSION, PROJECTS, COMMUNITY, SERVICE, AND AVOIDING DISTRACTION OR SCARCITY THINKING.

Roger: So to end this segment, I want to share my 2 cents for Henry and Lucy and for you. Regardless of what age you you are. From my perspective, having walked this journey countless times over 30 plus years with people of my observations, what of what makes a great retirement? It doesn't matter what age.

Number one, the money is important, but don't obsess about it. Retirement planning is a means for you to go create a great life. Then yes, you have to be diligent at it, but compartmentalize it because it's easy to let this be your new job and in some ways it is. But it can be a part time job. Number two, once you have the money part down and you know that it's feasible and I don't even know for you and Henry, once you have that dialed in and you have a system to manage that, get out of your own way. Through hundreds and hundreds of one on one conversations, those that have had the money right what I have observed, most of them are searching for permission to do what they already know they want to do, but they just can't quite get themselves to do it. They're searching for affirmation, for permission, for confidence, whatever you want to call it. And that's understandable. I do that in my life all the time. So I would encourage you to trust yourself. Trust yourself once you have the money and the system down and go live. Because we tend to put up all these roadblocks in our own way. So that's number one.

Number two, and this is reflected in a lot of the advice that we heard from others is the happiest people I see long term are people that have projects. They have something that they are pursuing at some level. Usually it starts as an interest and then it moves to a hobby and then it moves to a passion and then maybe it moves to a purpose. But it doesn't have to move all the way up that scale. But happy people have projects and those projects can change. It can be pickleball, it could be Habitat for Humanity, it can be service in your church, it can be whatever it is. But have A reason to wake up and something that you're pursuing. Those that don't, I've observed, end up getting on a loop of distraction. Someone mentioned this the other day in our coaches call of sometimes retirement can be a different form of keeping up with the Joneses and, and just manic travel, manic experiences can be become this whole loop that can be very superficial at its worst and not very meaningful but you're so busy doing it that you don't notice. And that's where regret can come in later in life. So I, I recommend to you have a conversation with your 90 year old self periodically. What would they be happy that you did? What would they guide you to change in your life so you don't get on this manic distraction phase now. You know, I think of that when I doom scroll on social media. Luckily I've pretty much solved that. But when I go and play Xbox, I wake up from my trance an hour or two later and I literally just lost that period of life. I don't want you to do that on an experiential loop that is just about distraction and fun. Find things that are important to you, that are curious to you and pursue them with some intention. It doesn't have to be changing the world, but happy people have projects. That's my second.

My third one is to have community. So when you retire, and this is true in your 60s. I was just having a conversation with a buddy Jeff the other day who is an adventurer and he's like, I forget how old Jeff is, just 64 I think. And a lot of his adventure friends are slowing down or they're moving away, et cetera. And he's like well wait a second, I don't want to slow down yet. When you leave work we talk about leaving friends but you, you leave your colleagues and the people you collaborate with. There's another thing that changes over time when you retire and that is that your friend group transforms and you want to be intentional about that because you're for you and you Henry and Lucy. If you retire in your mid-40s, I'm guessing your friends are probably still going to be working. This is one of the, the veins of retiring early is all your friends are still working. So if you call Bob and you tell hey Bob, let's go do this, you know, just go do this project or let's go on this trip. Bob's got a job probably and so Bob's not gonna be able to do it with you. So it's very easy to find yourself lonely in early retirement because all your friends are still doing stuff. Kevin Sebesta has shared this stuff separately. If you're older, some of your friends, you know, in whatever things you like to do. This makes me think of Jeff. They move away. They're dealing with their own health problems or challenges. They're dealing with, dealing with their own family challenges. They may change and not be into all the things that you're doing anymore. And so it's really important to continually revive your community. The people that you hang with, your homies, not necessarily the people that are dealing with their own challenges, but re vigorate with new people that are of like spirit. So you can continue doing the things that you like to do. And you're not all alone.

Next. Got, two more. Next. It's easy once you lose your superpower of earning income to feel like the glass is half full or no, excuse me, half empty. Half empty. you can start to slowly build a scarcity mindset and build roadblocks of why you can't do things because you don't have the income anymore. It's a little intimidating because you've been on, you and Henry and Lucy, you've been on this manic pace of saving and growing and paying off debt. And that is affirming. You guys are giving yourself atta boys over and over and over again. Well, when you retire, you're not going to be saving anymore, you're not going to be growing anymore. You may be spending more and that what you say you want, but psychologically it can feel very vulnerable. So be aware of that. And related to that is, and this is one of the advice we received from a listener is, which I agree with, is I encourage you to find something that you can do that will earn money that is more aligned with the season of life that you want to be in. Because both of you said, well, down the road, if one of us has a major health expense or something else, the other one will just go back to work. Sounds easier than it is. Your skills and your habits and your marketability are going to erode over time. I would suggest do something that is more in line with this next season of life that you can make some income from. Side gig, I heard somebody say, I think is a great idea that is more aligned, that brings you more joy than what you're doing now. I think of Kevin Lyles and Kevin Sebesta and Bobby Dubois and Mark Ross and Susan Lee. Now they're all doing something that they're passionate about. It doesn't even feel like work to them because they just love it and they're earning a little bit of money at it, and it keeps them in the game that they could probably dial up if they had to. I encourage you to find something, maybe take a sabbatical. Call it a sabbatical so you can think of something.

And the last thing I would share is related to that, sort of keeping up with the Joneses on activities in retirement. Find somebody or something to serve. You guys mentioned that you had some community things you wanted to do in your local area. The way that we make our country great or better is by giving back in some way. And that can be micro, locally, in the community, in the state, in the county, in the. In the country, in the world. Find some way to serve others. It could be just helping raise grandchildren. It could be mentoring. It could be Habitat for Humanity. It could be all sorts of things. I don't care. But that's how we help build a better country, is by helping others in some way be inspired, get a hand up. Whatever it is. I think of Rajeev. He goes every week. He goes and visits an Alzheimer's facility, and he's gone for years. He knows all the people, those people that never really see anybody. So find some way of serving someone else. All of these things flow together. So Those are my $0.02 for rocking retirement. With that, let's go set a smart sprint.

SMART SPRINT: IDENTIFY ONE CHALLENGE YOU’RE FACING AND TALK WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY WALKED THAT PATH—BEFORE TURNING TO BOOKS OR THE INTERNET.

Roger: And we're off to set a little baby step you can take in the next seven days to not just rock retirement, but rock life. All right, in the next seven days, here. Here's what I want you to do. Think of one thing that you're trying to learn or that you're struggling to overcome, okay? Get an idea of what that is. Then find someone that has dealt with it or overcome it. And before you go down the rabbit hole of YouTube and books and everything else, go have a conversation with somebody that's farther along on the trail and let them guide you and share their wisdom. 1. It builds great community, builds friendships. And who better to learn from than somebody that's actually done it and dealt with it? Real simple, superficial example. Here I have my Bronco. I love my Bronco. I buy stuff and I put it on it. And it's meant to be gear for me in Colorado, but I'm not a gear head. I don't know how to do stuff on vehicles. I never had anybody to teach me that as I was growing up. And I got a buddy, his name is Mark. Mark works on cars. Mark has a lift in his little garage, and he's got all the tools. He has, like, an old classic vet that he takes to shows. One thing Mark loves is to help other people and show all his gadgets because he's into all this stuff. So this is a good symbiotic relationship. Mark gets to work on vehicles and show somebody how to do stuff, and I get to learn and hang out with Mark. So about a month or so ago, we put armor underneath the Bronco. You do that because if you. You're going over hard, big rocks, you don't want your gas tank to get punctured or your transmission to get banged up on a rock. So we put that felt very manly. Maybe we'll put a photo of that in the noodle. And after I record the show, I bought some rock sliders. Those are sort of like the steps that go on the side of a car that you would step up in, but they're more beefier m than that. So if you fall off a rock or hit a rock, it doesn't hurt the side of your car or underneath, or you, can sort of slide along it. So I'm going to go with Mark and put the thing up there, and he's going to show me how to put these rock sliders on, and we're going to do that together. Simple example. This could be something you're struggling with. Got an issue with alcohol? Alcohol is, an anonymous. You are wondering about identity. Talk to somebody that's retired that you think is doing that well. You're trying to lose weight. Find a cohort of people that have walked that journey successfully and kept it off. All sorts of things we can do. So that is your challenge for today.

ROGER SHARES LISTENER WORDS FOR THE YEAR AND THE PERSONAL MEANING BEHIND THEM.

Roger: All right, to finish the show today, I want to share a few more words for the year that people emailed in. today we got two.

We got Marlene. Her word is movement. After a total knee replacement, she says last fall, with the sequel scheduled for late February 2026. Ooh, two knees. Movement has become, let's call it a priority. She says. As someone who has always been super active, I assumed rehab meant workouts, long walks, and lifting weights. Basically, no pain, no gain. What I learned instead is that the real magic is the unglamorous stuff. It's the stretching, balancing, getting up to move at least 45 minutes, even when I'd rather not. Turns out movement isn't about crushing workouts. It's about turning into a decorative couch pillow. Okay. And honestly, the lesson I'M learning movement doesn't have to be hard to be powerful. I love that for you, Marlene.

Next word is from Sherry. She got a little fancy on us. I've actually chosen a term from French culinary culinary world, Misin place. I'm sure I'm not pronouncing that very well. Mise Applause is how, AI says to pronounce it. I don't think I'm getting it right. Anyway, it's a French culinary term meaning everything in its place, referring to the essential practice of organizing arranging all ingredients and equipment before the cooking to ensure efficiency, reduce errors, and create calm, organized workflow, allowing you to focus on the actual cooking process. It involves reading the recipe, prepping the ingredients, and gathering tools beforehand and making cooking smoother and less stressful. When I take the time to get organized, locate the right tools or equipment and do the prep work, I find that I enjoy all my activities more this year. I've been using. I'm, getting to pronounce it wrong. Mise en place is that better approach to rocky retirement? Sorry, Sherry. Oh, I love that. Sherry. I'm working on just getting my keys, putting everything in its place, and all my equipment in Colorado. Sherry, I can relate to this. I bought some Milwaukee tool chests. I have a gear locker in Colorado where I have my camping gear. I have my mountain biking gear. I don't wonder where all this stuff is. And my wife will stop laughing at me. So I love that for you, Sherry. All right, everybody, I hope you have a wonderful day. I don't know. I'm happy today. I hope you are happy too.

The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual. All performance references are historical and do not guarantee future results. All indices are unmanaged and cannot be invested in directly. Make sure you consult your legal, tax or financial advisor before making any decisions.